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I am having some trouble with the chamfered edges of the roof pitches. I am cutting one chamfer up and one down to fit together. The problem is that I am cutting too much off the wood, the last photo illustrates this. I am not sure how to gauge the blade. I tried to cut this angle also at a 45 degree angle which does not work out at all! I went through several pieces of ply today.
Also, any ideas on how to cut a 'perfect' circle out of the top of my lamp housing? I found a vent cap cover at Lowes that might work for the top... I have been looking for a half round piece of wood, something for the end of wooden stair post, but no such luck!
Home stretch...? Not close. I have to re-cut all my pieces again.
I am having some trouble with the chamfered edges of the roof pitches. I am cutting one chamfer up and one down to fit together. The problem is that I am cutting too much off the wood, the last photo illustrates this. I am not sure how to gauge the blade. I tried to cut this angle also at a 45 degree angle which does not work out at all! I went through several pieces of ply today.
I've been there with going through the plywood - it happens.
The angle you want is much smaller than 45 degrees: if your top roof step is, say, 40" wide and your roof slope height is 4" and your lamp base is 8" then the angle is atan(4/((40-8)/2)) which is only 14°.
Bear in mind also that the bottom edge of roof is the only edge that is chamfered inwards on the outside.
I'd still recommend filling rather than chamfering.
I found a vent cap cover at Lowes that might work for the top... I have been looking for a half round piece of wood, something for the end of wooden stair post, but no such luck!
I used one of those plastic battery operated dome lights for inside a cupboard - they're very cheap and it's much less domed.
Whenever I cut a bit and I wasn't sure on size, I'd always cut it a bit bigger, and then keep adjusting down slightly until I got it to fit... [but then that might be why I've got gaps... ]
And Crispins advice with a Jigsaw is right; as long as you have a nice sharp strong blade and go SLOWLY. The odd gap here and there won't matter - after all, you could always line the inside with rubber to get a nice watertight seal....
"My pilot's license? That's out back in the Cessna. Or perhaps you're referring to my license to kill. Revoked. Trouble at the Kazakhstan border. I could give you the details but then I'd have to kill you, which I can't do because my license to kill has been revoked."
DOCTOR IZ Chancellor Senior Member member is offline
Getting into the TARDIS - next stop England...
Joined: Apr 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 764 Location: Near a large body of water Karma: 1,914
My roof pitch was cut at 10 degrees. I have a chamfered 10 degree slope both on the exterior roof frame and on the lamp housing side. My top tier is 41" square... and my lamp housing is 8" square, well, pretty close, it's about 1/8" out.
on the oblique cuts, I am trying to put 45 degree chamfers on each oblique seam... One chamfer from one panel has the short side of the chamfter up and the ajoining panel has the chamfer long side up to fit together. See the photos above... I am coming up short. I am having trouble with this. Also, should there be a support under the oblique cuts, if so how do I make this and mount it to the frame and lamp housing. I am running out of room to place things.
I will look into the dome light. Karsten had mentioned this too! Thanks for tips! I appreciate any input on this...
on the oblique cuts, I am trying to put 45 degree chamfers on each oblique seam... One chamfer from one panel has the short side of the chamfter up and the ajoining panel has the chamfer long side up to fit together. See the photos above... I am coming up short. I am having trouble with this.
If you want to chamfer diagonally across the sloping edge, you need a smaller angle than 45° because the boards need to meet at the same angle as your roof pitch. With 2 x 45° chamfers the boards would meet flat. If your roof pitch is 10° then cut your chamfers at 40° Bear in mind that the chamfers need to stick out beyond the diagonal edge, so you need to start with bigger boards. You can do the math to figure out how much wider, but it's easier to just start with them an inch wider and trim them to fit. I'd suggest playing with the chamfers on a couple of off-cuts to see how it will all work - great advice to give with 20-20 hindsight .
Also, should there be a support under the oblique cuts, if so how do I make this and mount it to the frame and lamp housing. I am running out of room to place things.
There's probably no need to support the sloping edges - neither of the roofs I've made have had support there.
You could cut a 10° chamfer on a piece of 2x2 and attach that from underneath if you want to be able to stand on your police box roof. Actually you may not even need the chamfer: a 2x2 triangle would provide the support and you could still screw into it from above then cover the screw holes.
Do check Glen's TARDIS builder's manual on building the roof, if you haven't done so already.
Yes I supported my internal joins as I wanted the roof section to be as light as possible to ease the assembley so I had built the roof sections out of thinner ply & didn`t want it warping.I will add some pics on the Apprentice build site soon
I'd write a you a description of how I built my roof, but it's probably better to just point to my build (the roof is on the first page). I have no supports for the roof at all, but since I got all my angles correct and used epoxy to glue everything together, it's strong enough for me to not only stand, but jump up and down on (trust me, I'm not light).
I don't think I ever mentioned what I used to set the angle on my table saw. I ran the blade up as far as it went and then used a Toolbox Protractor which is one of the cheapest tool I've ever bought (under $5) but it's a great product.
Jon you are doing an awesome job, I know the angles suck, wait till you do the console , if I ever cut another trapezoid it will be to soon. One important thing to remember though, whatever you come up with, is going to look a darn sight better then this
A router on an arm will make the best circle, but it won't show so a steady hand with the jigsaw would work fine if you go slowly.
I used one of those plastic battery operated dome lights for inside a cupboard - they're very cheap and it's much less domed. Crispin
Okay, I broke down and bought a router. I am reading on operational use right now. I will need it for my windows and NST build anyway. I did not see an arm attachments for making circles, but there was a kit that attaches to a router for about $30.00 Crispin is this what your referencing?
What type of router bit do I buy for creating a groove for the lens to sit into, as well as for cutting the 8" outer circle and the Lincoln logs window framing? I followed through with your recommendations on the plastic battery dome light. I picked one up at Lowes for only $3.99 Looks like it will be a good fit! Did you mount it with screws and glue?
Rassilon and apprentice - I also appreciate your comments too! Many thanks!
Hi Colin, I appreciate the advice and tips. I am going to pass on reinforcing my seems. I will invest in this item you recommended and check out your roof construction for pointers. I am just having a terrible time cutting the chamfers... I keep taking too much on one side. Ugh! I think I am going to just cut at 90 degrees and make the best of it.
Karst, I have found my Achilles's heel with placing chamfers on trapezoids... I am with you Karst on these trapezoids.
The roof really is the only thing slowing me down. I have done most of this build without too many hang ups, but this has been the 'master' hangup. I went through more ply today and still not right. I think just cutting at 90 degrees and using wood filler or bondo to seal the seams.
For the record, I am not planning on walking on my roof. LOL
Okay, I broke down and bought a router. I am reading on operational use right now. I will need it for my windows and NST build anyway. I did not see an arm attachments for making circles, but there was a kit that attaches to a router for about $30.00 Crispin is this what your referencing?
I'd suggest drilling a little hole in the base of your router and using a nail hammered into the wood as a guide. That's what I did (though I have a router table, so it's upside down from what you'd do without one). I've got pictures on page 7 of my build near the bottom. If you have a plunge router, you can just fit the nail into the hole, turn the router on and then press it down into the wood.
What type of router bit do I buy for creating a groove for the lens to sit into, as well as for cutting the 8" outer circle and the Lincoln logs window framing?
You should be able to make do with a regular straight bit. I think routers usually come with one of these (mine did). If you want to buy more bits, you can often find really cheap sets out there, occasionally on sale. I think my 50 piece set cost $45 on sale. These bits won't last as long as a good set, but I'm sure that I won't use them enough to notice. As a price comparison, I spent over $50 on my 3/4" round over bit (none of the cheap manufacturers make a round over bit that's this large).
I'd suggest drilling a little hole in the base of your router and using a nail hammered into the wood as a guide. That's what I did (though I have a router table, so it's upside down from what you'd do without one). If you have a plunge router, you can just fit the nail into the hole, turn the router on and then press it down into the wood.
You should be able to make do with a regular straight bit. I think routers usually come with one of these (mine did). If you want to buy more bits, you can often find really cheap sets out there, occasionally on sale. I think my 50 piece set cost $45 on sale. These bits won't last as long as a good set, but I'm sure that I won't use them enough to notice. As a price comparison, I spent over $50 on my 3/4" round over bit (none of the cheap manufacturers make a round over bit that's this large).
Colin
Colin, thank you very much for this. I have a Bosch Router with a fixed and plunge base. I am learning terminology here as well. I was not sure if I had to buy brand specific bits either, I figured it does not matter as long as they fit the routers collets.
So, I can use one of the holes in my plunge base and just just the nail as a pivot? The question is then, if my grove needs to be 5 3/4" how do I do that? Sorry for the question here the answer may seem obvious once I start testing out the equipment.
BTW, your Police Box base is awesome. It really is heavy duty. The workman ship is outstanding. How much longer until your done?
I have a Bosch Router with a fixed and plunge base. I am learning terminology here as well. I was not sure if I had to buy brand specific bits either, I figured it does not matter as long as they fit the routers collets.
You can buy whatever bits you want. I believe the ones you can buy in a regular hardware store only come in 1/4" or 1/2" shafts and the Bosch website indicates that yours can take either (mine only does 1/2").
So, I can use one of the holes in my plunge base and just just the nail as a pivot? The question is then, if my grove needs to be 5 3/4" how do I do that? Sorry for the question here the answer may seem obvious once I start testing out the equipment.
Here's a little diagram: If you want to make a circular grove with an outer diameter of 5 3/4", you have to measure from the outside of your router bit to a point 2 7/8" away and make your hole there. By the way, just in case you don't find it obvious, after you pound the nail into the wood, cut the head of the nail off and make the hole just big enough to fit the nail.
BTW, your Police Box base is awesome. It really is heavy duty. The workman ship is outstanding. How much longer until your done?
At the rate I'm going?.... It's not going to happen this year. The base should be ready before winter, but I haven't started on the walls and doors yet - and also need to acquire (or make) the glass, signs, window catches, etc.
Colin...wow! Great diagram. THANK YOU SIR! I have to learn how to do that sort of thing to illustrate my problems and successes. I can't remember if you use sketch up or illustrator... Send me a PM on this if you don't mind! For the router Fresnel groove... I now see more of what you are saying. I am a visual guy for sure... I am a bit frustrated here! all of the above
I did not get much done today... I just pondered over those chamfered (40 degree) edges of the pitch panels on the oblique cuts. Hmmm. I feel like a complete idiot here, but it appears that the circular saw will cut the chamfers in one direction... looking at the chamfer edge which is from short to long (// is the on end appearance to the edges) I am getting hung up on the measurements. I need 8" across the lens housing, but it turns out that when I measure 8" and cut both sides, I am always short... Ugh! I know I just probably need to give it a rest and let my subconscious work it out, but I am so close to getting done, I almost can't stand it either... What a dilemma. Oh well, it will come to me or with any assistance from you fine folks. Perhaps a plane ticket to the US might help...LOL! Karst, maybe a ticket from Vermont to Erie???? LOL! Just kidding!
I am starting the experimental phase with these roof panels now. It's not that I have not screwed up enough here to consider it an experiment, but I was intending on getting this right on the first go around which did not work, so I am left to call this experimentation. Not scientific!
I made supports for my roof. Again, I am not going to be walking or dancing on my TARDIS, but I like the idea of these seams being reinforced for heavy wet snow. It's not the best job, but I think it will suffice. Here are the photos:
Off to bed, soon my wife will have me on the floor if I don't free up the garage! LOL!
it appears that the circular saw will cut the chamfers in one direction...
If you're using a hand-held then start the cut at the other end ... If you're using a table saw, you can usually unclamp the fence and put it on the other side of the blade.
One tip wiith trimming edges with either a hand-held circular saw or jig saw is to clamp another piece of wood an inch away from the edge you want to cut to stop the saw from rocking sideways over the edge. Make sure it's the same thickness of stock though, so you get a level cut.
Scott - the wife does know about the NST. The remaining wood stock left over is in the basement anyway that where she'll be constructed and finished in the garage like this one... It's my winter project. My plans are to have one TARDISy Police Box in one corner of the back yard and the NST in the opposite corner. I have rather wide lot. The back yard is enclosed by 100+ arbovitaes that are about 10' tall. How are you coming on your build? I have not seen much lately. I realize how life gets in the way at times. Keep the photos coming...
Crispin - thanks again. I tried the table saw with the blade at 45 degrees. the problem is the miter angle does not work out to be 45 degrees at the lamp housing end. I have to follow the chalk line. The base frame corner if cut at the 45 miter but when you finish out the cut on the table saw, it ends up being off about an 1" along the lamp housing. It must be that the lamp housing is not square is my only thoughts. I appreciate the degree of assistance from all you fine folks.
Hi everyone. I spent the last 5 hours working on the roof panels again. This will be the 3rd set for me... Don't know at this point what else to do. I am pretty well discouraged. I have included some photos.
I want to add a special thanks to Colin who took time to put together several diagrams with instructions for me to follow. I might add that he was also feeling under the weather with an illness and still pulled through for me... This is first class to say the least. Karma points to this wonderful TR2 chap.
Here's the photos:
I can't believe how trivial these panels are, but so difficult to work on. I think my lamp housing may be causing me some problems with being a little out of square. I just don't know. I am just beside myself. I think I am going to just purchase a couple gallons of Bondo Automobile body filler and just fill in the joints.
STOP STRESSING, It is a freaking Police Box not a 747.
I think your roof looks excellent, bondo is a good idea.
Note: However If I were in Erie and had to make an emergency trip to the Hospital I would appreciate your desire for perfection in the most sincere way
Near enough Jon! The roof is a begger at any scale let alone 1:1 and what you've achieved is the start of a great roof. Fill the gaps with some more slices of boards, glue it up, bondo like a fury then sand it flat - noone will every know (except us, but we're 110% on your side anyway). All of us have roof issues - if anyone except Mr B has had a perfect fit that needed no tweaking or filling or filing I should be most surprised (and jealous).
Hi Jon Glen is right old mate, stop beating yourself up, and go for the car body filler. As he says "noone will every know" Your build is absolutely outstanding, beautiful to behold. Me. I'm off to the shops KB
Dude, Jon, take a deep breath, relax and repeat after me, Bondo is my friend. Trust me, I'm using plenty of it on my console, and guess what my police box has plenty on it as well. Once you fill, sand and paint, You will not be able to visually tell. It will be ok, I agree with the concensus here, get the bondo, relax and you will be fine, its a beautfiful box, don't sweat the small stuff, its all small stuff , so here is a Karma point to help you chill.
Honestly. These things are bloody tricky. You only have to be 1/2 a degree out on your cuts, and you'll be two degrees out on one corner. It's why some clever woodworker invented woodfiller.
Please, don't get stressed out about it; when you have the filler in and you've sanded it, no one [except us and you!] will know. If this was going to be sanded and laquered clear, then you'd be right to be stressed. But it isn't... so don't worry. I'm sure the real prop has more filler than you imagine....
The sooner you fill it, the closer you'll be to the blue paint moment...
"My pilot's license? That's out back in the Cessna. Or perhaps you're referring to my license to kill. Revoked. Trouble at the Kazakhstan border. I could give you the details but then I'd have to kill you, which I can't do because my license to kill has been revoked."
Yes - a bit of tough filler and some sanding and no one would ever know, especially when it's all blue If you're worried about the joins being visible then just do something like really load a roller with paint and over-paint (making sure there's not so much on it that it'll run...) and keep layering until the join is gone. That said, I've found that with a bit of patience and the right sandpaper you'll never see any joins anyway. All the best with the roof - you're almost there with the whole thing!
Hi Jon, recomend felixible exterior grade wood filler or something like grip & fix (may have different trade name in your part of the galaxy ).If the your box is going to be out side all the year round you may want take into account if it is likely to have any great weight of snow on it & take precautions with regard to additional support of the joins,check my thread for pics of roof section.Keep up the good work best wishes THE APPRENTICE
« Last Edit: Sept 27, 2008, 10:55pm by apprentice »
STOP STRESSING, It is a freaking Police Box not a 747.
Boeing just contacted me they want me to design a new air plane shaped like a TARDIS... They said not to worry about the roof and that many of their top aerospace engineers use bondo and wood filler on nearly all of their planes...Ahhhh, I am much more relaxed now!
Seriously, thanks to everyone who has been so supportive with their comments. I really, really appreciate it. This build has not been all that difficult. It really was the roof and those angles that threw me into a tail spin. I did figure out what happened...
Here's the story, three panels actually when anchored down fit together rather good only with a small gap in the seam, totally acceptable to my standard... The fourth panel was cut as the same as the other three, and I had huge gaps as wide as the Grand Canyon here.
I ended up putting my cut template which I made from some thin hard board composite. I placed it in the opening of the last pitch panel and saw my problem come alive.
I fit the template panel to one side of the opening and measured the distance of the gap both at the top and bottom, which by the way were 1/8" at the bottom and 3/16 at the top. I retraced my panel and added the extra width and drew a line connecting the top and bottom and you know what? Viola!!!!!! A very nice nearly perfect fit!
of joy!
I couldn't have done with all of you fine folks support and encouragement, but MOST of ALL, Colin and Crispin for the time with the diagrams which really helped me out a ton.
Lamp housing is all just about done... I have to place the all thread rods covered by a aluminum tubing today... The roof is really now complete. I have to finish sanding the Bondo. This really turned out very well. Photo's later today!
I'm ecstatic to read that you've discovered the problem with your roof and now have something you're happy with. With the problems that people have with the sloped part, I'm beginning to suspect even more that putting the sloped bits together first and then dropping in the lamp housing made the whole process a lot easier for me.
Ah! That's great to hear, Jon. I can't wait to see the finished beastie. I think, in retrospect, it would be near impossible, to cut four identical panels and see them fit perfectly. Roll on those those pictures, old son!! KB
Hi Dr one of the mods of the design from the exalted manual I came up with was to extend the lamp housing down inside the roof area to be level with the bottom of step 1.This had the benefit of giving me a fixed central point to align the roof panels around & a housing for my plans for the internal lighting that I hope to do.Pictures on my thread maybe will explain this clearer although this may be a little late as you have already built your roof Think your build is great BTW & chill we are a long time dead unless of course you are THE Dr
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, if I ever cut another trapezoid it will be to soon. One important thing to remember though, whatever you come up with, is going to look a darn sight better then this
I am with you Karst on these trapezoids. 
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