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Joined: Jun 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 115 Location: Arcata of my middle age Karma: 3
Re: Hartnell Tardis Deadbolt Lock « Reply #2 on Aug 7, 2006, 4:02pm »
Quote:
I believe it is a Yale 706 40mm, that's what I purchased.
Well, yes. . . and maybe no.
For a modern equivalent of the locks that appear to have been used in MOST of the original series, a Yale Model 706 Traditional Rimlock/Nightlatch is correct. If you wish to more or less center the cylinder in the stile (vertical slats of the doors), as was usually done in the OLD series regardless of where it was vertically along the stile, then you either have to use this narrower 40mm backset (distance from door edge to center of cylinder) lock, or build up an adapter using timber to accommodate the resulting overhang (both sides), because a standard Yale-type rimlock has a 60mm backset (which would put it too close to the door's inset panels if mounted flush to the edge of the door). In inches, that's nominally about 1-9/16" for the 40mm and 2-3/8" for the 60mm (backset, that is). If you don't mind the slight overhang, the longer backset is perfectly usable as long as you always open the door with the lock in it first - you only really notice it from the inside (though you always know it's there if you are a perfectionist).
The modern equivalent of the standard model (ie, with a 60mm backset) is a Yale Model 77 Traditional Rimlock/Nightlatch. This latter model (or rather the 1960's equivalent, which did have some minor cosmetic differences) was the type used in the Cushing Box (yes, with the long backset, as the doors were wider) and also appears to be the one used for the big Eccleston/Tennant Boxes (again appears vintage and not current production, unless my eyes deceive me - haven't had a close enough look to be dead certain, but the modern Yales give a softer, less edgy impression about the details).
Real Police Boxes (Met ones anyway) were also rimlocks, and most seem to have had the lock deeper set than the Who Boxes (edge of cylinder face itself about even with the edge of the inset panels (the cosmetic outer cylinder ring going even further), and with it vertically centered on the horizontal rail member - as per the Trench plans), so apparently they also used a standard lock backset as standard. Note, however, that since the door opened outward they had to have a reverse latch bolt, otherwise it wouldn't automatically latch when they went to close the door. Seem to have also used ETAS locks (Crich) as well as Yale.
Now, the Hartnell lock is a different matter. Based on it having a deep escutcheon/cylinder-ring/collar (the whole cylinder stood out much prouder from the door than a rimlock's would), and the way it was removed by Hartnell during the pilot as part of the unlocking procedure for the TARDIS door, this appears instead to have been a mortise lock, meaning the bolt mechanism would actually be inlet into the door itself (phone door side) rather than screwed to the inside as you would a rimlock. Don't know what the modern model designation would be, but vintage it would be a 300 series mortise lock (possibly a 320 or 340?). These also could be had with a short backset (Hartnell's, though on the other side, was also approximately centered in the stile like those later in the series), and with a latch instead of a deadbolt (so you can close the door and have it latch without using the key).
I believe (haven't tried) that you can simulate the same thing using a rimlock by obtaining a "Tubular Cylinder Ring for Mortise Locks" of the appropriate depth - haven't measured it, but seems to be around 1/2" deep or so for Hartnell (they range from 1/16"-15/16" as required by how thick your door is, since the mortise cylinders are not normally adjustable like the rimlock cylinders are, though Hartnell's cylinder ring/collar also seems to be a bit wider than newer ones). Just make sure not to break off the adjustment tab on the rimlock cylinder until you have made sure everything looks about right (if you've already broken it off to fit for a normal rimlock cylinder ring, it probably won't reach the slot in the rimlock with the new, deeper one). Not sure how steady the cylinder will be that far out from the lock mechanism and the face of the door, but it will have the right look - you just won't be able to rig it to take out as easily as Hartnell did. Should be able to get these collars from a locksmith.
For Hartnell's lock, I believe you can see it close up in "The Sensorites", as well as the "Pilot", among others (there are captures floating around, but if you can obtain the full episodes you can probably get better pics). This should help gage the depth and configuration of the ring spacer/collar you need.
Joined: Jun 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 115 Location: Arcata of my middle age Karma: 3
Re: Hartnell Tardis Deadbolt Lock « Reply #3 on Aug 7, 2006, 5:04pm »
Oh, and regards keys - every Yale-type TARDIS key shown on the series thus far has been to a 5-pin lock with a E1R (aka PARA) simplex keyway and had a standard bow design (you can even make out the "Made in England" on the back of Pertwee's key). Blanks from Yale usually have PARA on the box, but the industry at large designates them as Y1.
Note that all this is standard out-of-the-box for the cylinders that come with the above rimlock latches as a set, but depending on where you get them (and especially with rimlocks) they may come separately and be given a choice, so be aware. Normal style Yale cylinders come all the way up to 7-pins (8-pins in the past) and with dozens of different keyways, depending on how security conscious you are (even ones with a special additional set of pins and cuts on the side of the key that are very hard to pick).
You should also know that there are many Yale look-a-like rimlocks out there. In fact, many of them look more like the older, vintage Yale locks than the new Yale "Traditional" Model rimlocks do (except for the "Yale" on the knob, of course). That said, they usually (at least in the States) use a DIFFERENT keyway, and often the key bow design is different as well.
If you have any doubts as to what you have or are getting -
This is a section of the keyway (teeth up) looking from the bow end of the key.
Don't know what the original Police Boxes had, but I would hazard a guess that it was also a 5-pin with the standard PARA keyway. Anybody out there have an original Met Box key?
Joined: Jun 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 115 Location: Arcata of my middle age Karma: 3
Re: Hartnell Tardis Deadbolt Lock « Reply #4 on Aug 7, 2006, 6:11pm »
To see what I am talking about as regards old vs. new locks, here are some pics of 60mm backset locks (click images to see larger pics) -
Modern Yale "Traditional" Rimlock (can come boxed or bubble packed).
Vintage Yale Rimlock c. 1960's.
Note the additional and sharper details on the knob and top of the lock, and the bell shaped deadbolt switch as opposed to the flat disk of the newer ones.
Also, you can't see it here very well, but the logo also changed on the knob and cylinder, from "YALE" (in a lenticular shape on the knob and straight across on the cylinder) to the present "Yale" (mixed upper and lower case, and straight across on both).
As a comparison -
The lock on the Cushing Box.
The lock on the New Series Box (I know, detail leaves a lot to be desired).
Older rimlocks than these had circular knobs with the logo surrounded by a distinctive frame-shaped set of lines.
Joined: Jun 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 115 Location: Arcata of my middle age Karma: 3
Re: Hartnell Tardis Deadbolt Lock « Reply #6 on Aug 8, 2006, 11:23am »
Quote:
Quote:
the way it was removed by Hartnell during the pilot as part of the unlocking procedure for the TARDIS door
Sorry don't follow you there.
Well it's been quite awhile since I've looked at it again, but if memory serves - when the Doctor goes to open the TARDIS door (thinking he is unobserved) you can just make out that he fumbles a bit with the lock (using the key?) and then appears to take the cylinder out. He then goes to shine his pocket torch into the hole as if that was how you unlock it just as he is interrupted by Ian. This is only in the pilot, mind you, and reverts to just using his key in the aired episode.
Perhaps the lock was acting a bit twitchy and he had to use his Sonic Screwdriver? Interesting possibility considering Troughton's Sonic Screwdriver (the first mention of one) prop was essentially an ordinary metal pen torch/flashlight.
Joined: Jun 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 59 Location: Burton , Ohio Karma: 2
Re: Hartnell Tardis Deadbolt Lock « Reply #7 on Aug 8, 2006, 5:21pm »
Alan, Thanks for the information. I certainly have a good start with all the helpful information. I quess i will have to pickup a book on locksmithing as well. I was always suspect that the lock was only a static prop and not a functional lock . I maybe wrong in this respect . Jon, I did pickup a Yale 706 40mm just to be on the safe side. greg
Joined: Apr 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 459 Location: the Greta Garbo Home Karma: 159
Re: Hartnell Tardis Deadbolt Lock « Reply #8 on Aug 9, 2006, 5:22pm »
In the pilot episode it looks to me as if the Doctor turns the lock and it pops out an inch or two: then he continues to turn it this way and that, like a combination lock.
>>[police boxes] seem to have also used ETAS locks (Crich) as well as Yale. The Barnet one had an ETAS lock, and I seem to remember seeing an ETAS lock on one of the police telephones at Avoncroft.
Joined: Jun 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 59 Location: Burton , Ohio Karma: 2
Re: Hartnell Tardis Deadbolt Lock « Reply #9 on Aug 9, 2006, 5:54pm »
Ironageman, Yes , The pilot episode is what got me believing that the lock was only a static prop and not a functional lock. I guess in the long run we may never know. I will make ever attempt to make my build at least look like the original prop. greg
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